[Christiaan X]

Hard truths are something a little different from lies. I'm just being straight-up with ya, my friend.

If sexual orientation were malleable, through human management or divine miracle, it wouldn't be any skin off my nose if people went about changing theirs.

It just simply isn't. And I would never say God couldn't effect such changes. However, He clearly declines to do so. That still leaves many people with some undiscovered potentials within their own constitutions, but a lot of people do learn where their sexualities start and stop. After that, they just need to have the right epiphanies to know how to bring their natures into service in God's grace.

26 “Is it by your understanding that the hawk soars, Stretching his wings toward the south?
27 “Is it at your command that the eagle mounts up And makes his nest on high?"

It is God's infinite wisdom that is the 'problem,' frustrating our desires for instant fixes for a complicated world.

He doesn't call you crazy, but I think he does wonder why you say "F you."

Though the politeness there doesn't go unnoticed, and I wish you all blessings.

[SaintChristopher]

I'm pretty agnostic on the question of 'changing' sexuality. There's some anecdotal evidence that it may work for some people who have a lot of determination and commitment. There's quite a bit of anecdotal and clinical evidence to suggest that it doesn't always work, and can do more harm than good. Either way, if you're trying to change your orientation in the first place, that suggests to me that you have bigger problems to start with.

But I'm pretty sceptical about using the whole language of 'sexual orientation' in the first place. For most of us (I think - maybe it's just me) sexuality isn't simply about what turns you on. It's about who you fall in love with. It's about how you experience intimacy and tenderness. A lot of men (and boys) I know of can imagine having sex with another man, but cannot imagine kissing another man, much less falling in love with one. And unfortunately, nobody can choose who they fall in love with. Life would perhaps be easier for all of us if our brains always governed our hearts, but we are not created that way. The only solution, I think, is to accept that love is always good, whatever form it takes, but that we always must be morally responsible in the choices we make.

[Tabernacle]

http://www.medicalda...orientation.htm

"...Further research led to discoveries that pedophiles tended to do poorly on memory tests..."


Bad memory?
You might be a pedophile!

[RTC]

Byblis, on 12 January 2012 - 03:24 AM, said:

Is this going to change your attraction, or degree of arousal, or your love for this person?
What exactly happens inside your brain? Can you be a homosexual in love with a boy with a vagina? That is my question. Could you learn to be "heterosexual" because of the love you've developed with this person, or is there something inside you that is repulsed by the female gender?

Do you believe (your own) sexual orientation is mutable, or is it completely hardwired for life?

Spoke to my BL friend about this before answering, but he and I agree.

If the love and attraction is there before the discovery, probably we will remain that way (me speaking as a gay guy, him speaking as a former BL). Wasn't the penis we'd have fallen for, but the overall person - and in my case at least if I fall for someone they're gorgeous no matter what they look like.

Of course, there could be some issues with shock, and maybe something about dishonesty - although how a person truly feels does not always conform to their body.

Good Bless and Remember the Chains
Don't let your body bind you

[RTC]

BibleStories, on 14 January 2012 - 12:45 AM, said:

The idea that a person is limited to such strict gender bias makes no sense at all to me. In my mind the idea that sexual orientation is hardwired is simply impossible.

I doubt it's hardwired for everyone, but for some it is.

Quote

Love is a sort of miracle that can cause any change to occur in conformity with will.

I agree that love can change all sorts of things with a person. That said, try telling someone who is deeply in love with you that you're gay/paedo/in love with another/cheated on them etc, and see how much that love can survive. With some people love truly is a miracle that can overcome all sorts, with others there are limits to what it can survive.

Quote

If learning how to enjoy homosexuality, or non-homosexuality is the means of moving forward with life into a happy future, yes I can modify my sexual orientation one way or another.
I am not bi-sexual, but if i love someone, sticking my tongue in their repulsive ear canal or whatever is going to be a simple task, one i could perform with gladness, if it's the means of moving forward to a future of peace and happiness. And it is a cop out to say anything otherwise, completely illogical and unscientific.

Such a statement is, quite simply, offensive. Most gays, at least in the past, would dearly love to have changed their orientation to be able to live a "future of peace and happiness", and yet few have done. For those of us unfortunate enough to have experienced some form of "therapy", we know that it is both an unmitigated failure in the vast majority of cases and absolute hell for those trying to live through it. For you to make such a comment shows your ignorance about the subject - the pain and struggle experienced by those gays who have tried to change. Those rare few exceptions are probably cases where the victim wasn't anything near gay, but in some manner confused about their sexuality.

Such attitudes have caused a great deal of harm to society - to God's children - and only serve to bring pain. They have no basis in fact, are ungodly, and only cause harm.

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let's say you are a pedophile attracted to little boys, you wish the laws could change so you could have sex with them. But in order to change the law you have to have sex with a little girl first, then you are granted a dozen boys to be with forever. are you saying you couldn't do it, or wouldn't do it, because you're brain is so hardwired? that is ridiculous.

You're confusing the issue, and taking it to a rather silly level at that. The topic here is attraction. Prostitutes (male and female) have sex with people they're not attracted to and often have sex with people opposite to their orientation - it's part of the job description in many cases (and yes, I do know what I am talking about). Having sex for some form of gain is not related to attraction in any way.

If I was faced with a similar situation - if the price was worth it - you'll find me in the nearest bed ready to screw the first hot/butt ugly/absolutely hideous chick who came into the room. Having sex with someone for gain and being attracted to someone are very different things.

(My BL friend had some other "interesting" things to say (which I won't repeat) about your suggestion along with questioning how perverted you are)

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homos can become hetero, nons can become pedos, pedos can become nons. sexual orientation is software, not hardwired. and there are plenty of studies to back this true fact of human sexuality.

While it is possible for someone to be confused, and to come out of that confusion (or indeed to be sure and become confused), if someone is truly gay they ain't going to change, just like if someone is truly straight they ain't going to change. Those who are bi (confused or otherwise) can of course experience apparent change - someone who is 95% het still has 5% room for attraction to the same sex, and at 95% would probably have appeared straight to most people.

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i'm not here to argue or impose my beliefs on anyone. but i do think it is dangerous to preach the notion that a pedophile cannot change his attraction or arousal. of course anybody can, it may not be easy, but can be done.

Not often, and not without great amounts of pain. That said, you can bet that when a couple is in their 90's and have been married most of their lives, both of them would've considered being attracted to a 90yo to be repulsive when they got married. People can change, it's true, and people who in their 20's are attracted to 20yo's may well be attracted to 90yo's some 70 yrs later. But to change the gender you're attracted to is a whole different issue. I certainly hope and pray that you're not in any sort of leadership role, especially where any form of vulnerable/hurt people are concerned if you have a view like that (at least if you let it show) as it can only lead to a hell of a lot of harm.

I am speaking from personal experience, from having close friends on both sides of the debate, and from being a subject of some (plural) of these studies in the past. There are also researchers in this field (again on both sides of the debate but mostly in the "nurture" camp) who I speak to quite often.

God Bless,
RTC

[RTC]

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If God truly hardwired sexual orientation, that would be a mistake, an awful accident. God doesn't make mistakes like that. Miracles happen. Prayer works. The idea of limiting or restricting love through hard wiring, goes against the Law of Grace.

A true view - but one that can be dangerous.

Can God change people? Sure. Can He do it in an instant? Without a doubt. Does He always do it? No.

There are at least some of us who God does not want to change. As I mentioned a little earlier in this thread, I've been through all sorts of therapy. I've spent quite literally years in prayer over this. God has made it clear to me that He does not want me to change, at least not right now. Had I listened to Him earlier in my life, well, things would've been a lot better, but I didn't believe that God would want to leave someone gay.

My faith cannot be called into question, as miracles are a regular part of my life (not daily, but I know what it is like to see God perform miracles when I ask (not always - sometimes it goes against His Will - someone's not quite ready etc).

God has a job for me to do, and for me to do it I need to be gay. I may or may not be blessed with a partner (who will be God's choice for me if/when it happens), but He does want me to be gay for this "mission". Until I complete the task He has set I won't be seeing any change in my sexuality, and to pray for change simply means I am rejecting what my Lord has asked me to do now that I understand what the job is (well, some of it anyway).

God has His reasons for doing things. He gives us the grace, patience, and mercy to allow us to question what He wants, but we must remember that He sets the rules, and that His Ways are so far above our ways. We cannot understand much of what He does, or why, but what we must understand is that when He has His heart set on us doing something then we'd best knuckle down and do it, otherwise either it'll pass us by (read Mordecai's speech to Esther) or we'll be stuck in a rut until we get on with the job.

God Bless,
RTC

[RTC]

killerinmeisthekillerinyou, on 16 January 2012 - 06:40 PM, said:

Matthew 17:20 He replied, "Because you have so little faith. I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you."

If you believe that it truly always works like that (or any one else reading this), then I want you to exercise your faith and pray that the entire world - every person EVER born - will be saved, and that the coming judgement will be averted.

If nothing is impossible, then I expect to wake up one morning very soon and find that every person on earth is now a Christian.. I sure would love to see it as well.

Or maybe sometime more simple.. Pray that you'll be able to drive your car every day without having to put any fuel in for the next year.. You can drive it for Christian purposes of any sort if you need that little bit extra. Put the money you save into something else for the benefit of the Kingdom.. Don't have a car? Pray then that God will proved you with a bus so that you can provide transport for those in need for free.

God can work like that, but He does not always choose to do so. Only when our prayers are aligned to His Will can we expect to see that promise act most (or even all) of the time, and thank God for that. Imagine the mess this world would be if all those who trusted in that verse always got what they want - all the blacks/germans/jews/yanks/brits/gays/straights/paedos/ephebos/cat lovers/dog lovers/baptists/catholics/presbytarians/weslyans/etc/etc/etc/etc who would no longer exist because at some time some "Christian" who trusts that promise has prayed for the complete and instant destruction of whatever it is they despise. I can guarantee that if God always honoured that verse, you and your entire country would not exist.

(Yes, know that this is an old post, but still feel this needs to be said for someone)

[RTC]

Christiaan X, on 17 January 2012 - 07:33 PM, said:

Supposing my penis was amputated after a car accident. Should I pray to grow a new one?

Why not? God is in the healing business. I've experienced regenerative healing more than once, and have seen it in several others as well.

(Strangely though, I'm still gay - which is good evidence that God does not want me changed! How else could the same faith that could regenerate my body and see me healed of a rather nasty disease NOT in the same night see me become straight?)

Take care and God Bless,
RTC
God is great at breaking chains

[RTC]

byblis, on 20 January 2012 - 04:13 PM, said:

When you are right with God, and try to lead a wholesome lifestyle, the Lord protects you and your loved ones.
These are my beliefs.

You questioned CX's reading of the Bible earlier. Have you read the book of Job? Absolute Biblical proof that your beliefs are not entirely founded on the Bible.

That said, I fully agree that God can and still does perform miracles.

And that said, I've known many blessed with healing ministries who have some physical "deformity" or ailment. He does not always protect for whatever reason, and He does not heal every disease/illness etc. Sometimes, like with Paul, He leaves a "thorn in our side" to keep us humble. In my case it is being gay - although that is not the only reason I am gay.

Oh, and while you go and check Job to see if what I say is true, you may also want to brush up on the verses relating to judging others. Take careful note of Romans 14:4 while you're at it.

Take care and God Bless my brother,
RTC
Not all chains are physical

[RTC]

MM, on 21 January 2012 - 12:09 AM, said:

No wholesome person, or "holy" person, has it in them to harm children,

And yet the ideas you express lead to just that. What you express leads to such wonderfully non-harmful things like teen (and even younger) suicide, stresses that you cannot believe (and the long-term psychological damage that such stresses cause). You views are among the most dangerous in the world, and do far more harm than pretty much anything else. Much more so when expressed in the name of God.

By your own standard you are not, and are far from Holy.

Quote

now then, let's say some amazing genius dietitian proves that cauliflower is actually good for you, and cures cancer. and now lets say you find out you have cancer.

now replace the word "cauliflower" with pussy, and replace the word "cancer" with pedophilia.

Such a thing as this also calls into question whether or not you've ever communed with God. Had you done so, or at least had you listened, you would know how false such a statement is. It isn't exactly wise to make false statements when you're claiming/pretending to be speaking on behalf of God. If you're going to speak on His behalf, speak only truth. If you know or suspect something to be false, best to remain quiet. And always remember that God is plenty big enough to speak for Himself if He feels His Message isn't getting across.

Take care and God Bless,
RTC
Bound by God or bound by lies? Your choice

[RTC]

christed, on 20 May 2012 - 07:53 PM, said:

Anybody who says that anything is impossible is anti-christ.

Thank you for the confirmation you are anti-christ.

It is impossible for God to lie.

Am I anti-Christ, or is God a liar?

One promise in the Bible you may need to be wary of - the one where God promises that the standards you use to judge others will be used to judge you.

God Bless,
RTC
It is a fearful thing indeed to fall into the hands of the Living God.

[JudgeDracoAmunRa]

Something akin to this did happen to me. I was attracted to a boy only to discover he was a girl. It was a bit of an eye opener because when I realised he was a she I found all the thoughts and feelings I had about caring for and loving this "boy" evaporated. It was incredibly scary. I prayed about it, and over a few months changed from exclusively BL to slightly CL.

[Tabernacle]

Ban on Sexual Orientation Therapy.

http://cnsnews.com/n...egal-challenges

Religious and civil rights law groups say they are headed to federal court to try to stop a new California law that bars licensed counselors and therapists – even if they are pastors, priests or rabbis -- from helping anyone under 18 to change their sexual orientation.

[JudgeDracoAmunRa]

Romans 1:27

And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

This idea that somehow there's a therapy that will turn gays into straights rather begs the question: well, if its possible to go from gay to straight, isn't it be possible to go from straight to gay? Bible says: YES!

Watch out straight guys: don't let this happen to you. :o/>

[JudgeDracoAmunRa]

Oops! Too late! I see some of you are already "gay for pay"... ;)/>

Just stop doing it for money and your journey to the dark side will be complete. :unsure:/>

[Tabernacle]

I very much want to be gay, to experience "bromance", to be in love and share the joy of companionship with another man.
I just wish I were attracted to men, that would make being in love with him so much simpler.
:rolleyes:/>

[JudgeDracoAmunRa]

Watch out though. You don't want to get caught in a bad bromance.

[Christiaan X]

To understand the biblical quotes, you have to go beyond gay and straight and get into the nitty gritty of Mediterranean style bisexuality, where most guys who are normally straight may consider the option of a nice-looking male after-side if they are feeling pent up.

[JudgeDracoAmunRa]

Ah yes! The Mediterraneans. Inventors of doing it "The Italian Way". Inspired by the Roman Catholic Church that way is.